Huperborea

(This was originally posted here)

Trinitarians cite verses that either directly or indirectly refer to Jesus and the Holy Spirit as "God" as prooftexts of their doctrine, but in the Old Testament angels are referred to as "God" and speak as if they were "God." A few examples:





Genesis 16



7

The angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur.

8

And he said, "Hagar, maid of Sar'ai, where have you come from and where are you going?" She said, "I am fleeing from my mistress Sar'ai."

9

The angel of the LORD said to her, "Return to your mistress, and submit to her."

10

The angel of the LORD also said to her, "I will so greatly multiply your descendants that they cannot be numbered for multitude."

11

And the angel of the LORD said to her, "Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ish'mael; because the LORD has given heed to your affliction.

12

He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."

13

So she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "Thou art a God of seeing"; for she said, "Have I really seen God and remained alive after seeing him?"



Genesis 21



17

And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, "What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.

18

Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation."

19

Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the lad a drink.

20

And God was with the lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow.





Genesis 22



11

But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I."

12

He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."





15

And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,

16

and said, "By myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son,

17

I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies,

18

and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice."





Genesis 31



11

Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, 'Jacob,' and I said, 'Here I am!'

12

And he said, 'Lift up your eyes and see, all the goats that leap upon the flock are striped, spotted, and mottled; for I have seen all that Laban is doing to you.

13

I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and made a vow to me. Now arise, go forth from this land, and return to the land of your birth.'"





Genesis 32





24

And Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day.

25

When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and Jacob's thigh was put out of joint as he wrestled with him.

26

Then he said, "Let me go, for the day is breaking." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go, unless you bless me."

27

And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."

28

Then he said, "Your name shall no more be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed."

29

Then Jacob asked him, "Tell me, I pray, your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him.

30

So Jacob called the name of the place Peni'el, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."

31

The sun rose upon him as he passed Penu'el, limping because of his thigh.



Hosea 12



4

He strove with the angel and prevailed, he wept and sought his favor. He met God at Bethel, and there God spoke with him--

5

the LORD the God of hosts, the LORD is his name:



Exodus 3





2

And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and lo, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.

3

And Moses said, "I will turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."

4

When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here am I."

5

Then he said, "Do not come near; put off your shoes from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."

6

And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.


If angels are referred to as "God," being inferior to the Son and Holy Spirit, what makes Trinitarians believe their favorite prooftexts that refer to Jesus and the Holy Spirit as "God" make their case?

By the way, let me preemptively address one line of Trinitarian apologia I know will come up:

“ 'The Angel [or Messenger] of the Lord’ is a problematic figure. The ambiguous Hebrew phrase is best translated without the definite article, that is, “an angel [messenger] of Yahweh” (as do the Septuagint and NJV; cf. Matt. 1.20; 2.13, 19; 28.2; Acts 8.26). Later Christian theology tended to see the preincarnate Christ in this figure (hence the definite article), but the phrase probably referred vaguely to any mediator sent by God. He may be human (Hag. 1.13); Mal. 2.7). When the figure is clearly referred to as superhuman, he does not always function as a messenger but instead talks and behaves as if he were God, even failing to introduce his words as the message of another who sent him.”—Samuel A. Meier, Oxford Companion to the Bible


Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Matthew 2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:19
But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,

Matthew 28:2
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Luke 2:9
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Acts 5:19
But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,

Acts 7:30
And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

Acts 8:26
And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

Acts 12:7
And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

Acts 12:23
And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

For those who identify the Angel of the Lord with the preincarnate Christ, I would like to know how he was able to exist in Mary's womb and announce his birth to her as the Angel of the Lord at the same time (in other words, how can he be simultaneously preincarnate and incarnate). I would also like to know why the NT authors who refer to him never bother to identify him with Jesus.